The 1961 Hansard trawl, featuring, inter alia, Denis Healey, the 'common market' and smoking

Another Hansard ramble, this time from October 1961.

What about this little nail bomb? (my emphases):

THE EARL OF MANSFIELD asked Her Majesty's Government:

If, when negotiating for entry into the Common Market, they will make it clear to the other countries concerned that such entry on the part of Great Britain will be possible only if we retain the right to withdraw from such an association at a later date, on due notice given, and under previously agreed conditions, should it be subsequently found that continued membership would be dangerous, or prejudicial, to our national prosperity or way of life.

THE JOINT PARLIAMENTARY UNDER-SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FOREIGN AFFAIRS (THE MARQUESS OF LANSDOWNE) The Treaty of Rome contains no provisions for withdrawal or denunciation. Any proposal for the inclusion of such provisions would go beyond the adjustments to the Treaty provided for in Article 237. Under Article 236, proposals for amending the Treaty can be made by the Government of any member State or by the Commission and require unanimous approval. If Her Majesty's Government had come to the conclusion that British membership of the E.E.C. would be dangerous or prejudicial to our national prosperity or way of life, they would not have decided to apply to open negotiations with a view to acceding, on suitable terms, to the Treaty of Rome.

We wuz warned.....  Mungo David Malcolm Murray, 7th Earl of Mansfield and Mansfield (we heard you the first time...) did not live to see us accede to the Common Market, if my calculations are correct.


And so to older friends / partners etc:

THE EARL OF HARROWBY asked Her Majesty's Government:What Department has inherited the duties and propaganda of the pre-war Empire Marketing Board and whether modernised publicity, along the invaluable lines on which they worked, can be re-introduced to-day.

An Empire marketing board, eh?  Sounds like a pretty challenging job for even the most efficient of marketeers, but perhaps quite entertaining.  Maybe one would get a governorship rather than equity as a reward for a job well done.    As to the answer, that is far too dull to be worth quoting.

On a day, and in the junior chamber, this:

Mr. Strachey  (by Private Notice) asked the Minister of Aviation whether he is aware of the growing public concern over the recent accidents to aircraft belonging to private airlines, including the Dakota aircraft that crashed near Carlisle on 17th October; whether he will give the number of fatal accidents per million passenger miles flown for aircraft of the private airlines and the public Corporations respectively during 1960 and 1961 to date; and whether he will issue new and stricter safety regulations for all aircraft on charter flights.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aviation (Mr. C. M. Woodhouse)  My right hon. Friend is indeed aware of the growing public concern over the recent accidents to aircraft belonging to private airlines and he shares it. He is today on a flight gaining background knowledge to assist him in considering the problems involved, and that is why I apologise for being here on his behalf.

I think he survived.

Some interesting comments from Denis Healey in a foreign affairs debate:

Mr. Denis Healey (Leeds, East) The second day of this debate on foreign affairs is, inevitably, overshadowed by the statement made at the Soviet Communist Party Congress yesterday by Chairman Khrushchev that the Soviet Government intend to explode a 50 megaton bomb in about a fortnight from now. All of us are by now used to the tedious bluster about Russia's atomic striking power in which Mr. Khrushchev so frequently indulges, and I do not think that there is any evidence that anyone in the West has so far been deflected from his course by this type of rocket rattling.

.......

After all, for Germans and, I think, for anyone who cares for human freedom, the closing of the frontier between East and West Berlin on 13th August was one of the most monstrously inhuman acts carried out by any Government in the last fifteen years. There is no doubt that public opinion in Western Germany was stunned by this act and was equally stunned by the failure of the allied Governments to do anything about it....There is no doubt that a final solution of the European problem must depend on the reunification of Germany. History teaches us that we cannot build a stable peace on the division of a great nation against its will. Incidentally, no one knows this better than the Poles. Moreover, the possibility of German reunification will remain alive so long as West Berlin is free. But German reunification can come only by the consent of all concerned. It is now finally revealed that it cannot come by force or by the threat of force.

Away from the particular to the philosophical:

Against this background I deplore the tendency which seems to me to have been growing in leading Government spokesmen in the last few weeks to pose as crusaders for spiritual values in the struggle against the world's materialists. Frankly, I think this sort of posture striking comes no better from them than it did from Mr. Foster Dulles—especially when the temple of their religion is the bingo parlour and when their first beatitude is "You have never had it so good." [HON. MEMBERS: "Cheap."]

One has to hand it to the old bruiser, he has a way with words.  He's still with us, and now 94. A civilian friend who served him in a shop some years back said he was charming and unassuming.

And so to '[the] custom loathsome to the eye, hateful to the nose, harmful to the brain, dangerous to the lungs, and in the black stinking fume thereof nearest resembling the horrible stygian smoke of the pit that is bottomless' (in James I's reckoning):

Mr. Francis Noel-Baker (Swindon) I wish to attempt to draw the attention of the House to the advertising campaigns being conducted by tobacco manufacturers and, in particular, to their efforts to persuade young people and children to smoke cigarettes, on which they are at the present time spending large amounts of money....Of course, this whole matter has to be judged against the background of the horrifying risks to health which have shown to be involved in the heavy smoking of cigarettes. That risk, let me add, is precisely the same whether one is dealing with the smoking of the old-fashioned, conventional, plain cigarette, or with the cigarette with the filter tip or the mentholated cigarettes which in the last few years have been entering the consumer market.

Let's not get him started on low tar cigarettes....

What should one conclude from this:

A survey of a county borough near London showed that over one-quarter of grammar school boys and over one-third of secondary modern school boys were smokers by the time they were 15, and smoking over five cigarettes a week, and often more.

When I were a lad, I did not start in my teens - unlike many of my contemporaries - as I did not have school dinner money to re-appropriate for the habit, as I was a picky blighter who took a packed lunch to school instead.  My eating habits have improved since, and I've also smoked the odd tobacco product.

And here Noel-Baker gets tendentious:

Those in this business who ought to know take the view that very few smokers can tell the difference between brands of cigarettes if they are blindfolded. Therefore, advertising campaigns are concerned with factors other than the immediate physical characteristics of the cigarettes concerned.

I have not smoked cigarettes 'professionally' for years, but I could still differentiate French from American from 'British' cigarettes.

And so to the past being another country:

Indeed, I see no reason why tobacco advertising should not be taken off the commercial television screen altogether in the same way as the advertising of spirits has. 

Go to circa 5:26 for something a little bit wonderful:

Mind you, from what I've seen - admittedly with the volume off, as I'm in a coffee shop - it is all rather good.

Furthermore, while the Parliamentary Secretary is talking to the Chairman of I.T.V. he might speak to him about smoking by performers in non-commercial programmes. I do not watch the commercial screen very frequently, but I am told by those who do that in almost any type of programme, and particularly the so-called serious political discussions, some and often all of the participants are constantly puffing away at cigarettes and offering themselves a further supply.

Yeah, yeah and he didn't read any newspaper other than The Times.

Niall MacPherson proves prescient:

The hon. Gentleman suggested that we should try to eliminate this element of what is, after all, realism from the stage and television. How far are we to carry that? Are we to edit books and censor any suggestion that smoking may give satisfaction? Has the hon. Gentleman his eye on Sherlock Holmes' pipe? Is all smoking on streets and in public places to be forbidden? One has to regard this in due proportion.

And wise:

After all, advertising in a very real sense is the hallmark of a free society. It is playing a great part in raising the standard of living in this country. It will certainly have to play its part in our efforts to expand our export trade, and we ought to think very carefully before we subject any part of it to what may be an unnecessary restriction. We should, and we do, restrict advertisements presenting misleading claims for cures and for certain other goods and activities. There is legislation to deal with that.

The 1961 Hansard trawl, featuring lots of law 'n' order and leaving presents for Sierra Leone and Cyprus.

Looking at the last sitting in August 1961, I saw that 'crimes of violence' and 'juvenile delinquency' were at issue, with the latter debate being opened by the MP for Tottenham....

As to the first topic, take it away, David James MP for Brighton Kemptown:

"There is no doubt at all that the fivefold increase in crimes of violence which have taken place since the war gives grave cause for apprehension to many defenceless people".

So, it would appear the rot set in before the end of the Chatterley ban and so forth.

A rather perceptive comment:

 "An American judge recently said in New York: The philosophy of responsibility has been replaced by the philosophy of excuse. Under this new concept all criminals, young and old, are sick people and far from seeing in their criminal actions anything for which the offenders are responsible, we are told to learn to recognise in criminality the existence of something for which society alone is responsible. He concluded At this juncture, when teenage crime is of such general concern, it would be fruitful for our civilisation to reaffirm a philosophy of responsibility and cut down the philosophy of excuse to proper size.

And his modest proposal:

"I am sorry as an English Member to run a hare on my own, but I am a West Highlander by birth and my home is on the Island of Mull. I should like to see the concept of the penal colony revived. I believe that we are far more inhumane than were our predecessors. It is true that in the last century we had Botany Bay to which we could send people, but I accept with considerable reluctance that it might be necessary occasionally to send a man to prison for forty-two years".

It is alleged that in the Western Isles of Scotland, in which I am particularly interested in this respect, we should not be able to recruit staff to look after prisoners. My answer as a Western Highlander is not that people want to leave that lovely part of the world, but that they have to do so because employment is not provided there. The islands of Eigg, Rum, Muck, Canna and Scalpa have an acreage of 49,100 acres and being surrounded by sea there would be no possibility to escape from them. The population there in 1821 was 1,620 but now it is only 130. It seems to me that, both in humanity and as part of a general exercise to make the West Islands more viable, this would be well worthy of further investigation.

 Crikey.

A rather entertaining sidetrack:

Charles Fletcher-Cooke.....One of our difficulties is know how to distinguish that class of criminals who have been referred to as psychopaths. The definition in the Mental Health Act is as good as we can get, although it has been gravely criticised in some quarters as being too restrictive. It has been suggested that Joan of Arc, Napoleon and Lawrence of Arabia were psychopathic personalities. Lord Goddard, although in not so many words, recently said something to the effect that we are all psychopaths now.

Mr. Fletcher Joan of Arc was schizophrenic.

Mr. Fletcher-Cooke She may have shown signs of dementia praecox, but I do not wish to go into the diagnosis of Joan of Arc. The definition in its limited sense in the Act has, I think, commanded respect, but even within that limited definition there is the grave difficulty of identifying the individual psychopath.

 There went their chances of a distinction of the legion d'honneur..

And so to juvenile delinquency.

This is a surprise:

The Daily Mail has fought hard in the battle to end the imprisoning of children, which a year ago it so rightly described as a stepping stone to a rake's progress and a system which meant that children were bundled together with possibly hardened criminals, and a system which should he smashed. I thank the Daily Mail for its powerful support. The system has now been smashed and it has played a major part in achieving the victory.

Maybe, just to ring the changes, the left should mock the Mail for that rather than its pre-war enthusiasm for Hitler.

Frankly bizarre generalisation o' the day:

Mr. Brown.... I assure the House from my own experience that there is nothing wrong with British youth today; they are intelligent and of good physique, and they display qualities of courage and fortitude to a markedly high degree. 

Brown's story is interesting - he was elected as Labour, went indy, then took the blue whip in 1962.  He hanged himself in 1972, having since re-joined Labour. 

Back at the plot:

Mr. Crowder ...I would also like to empower probation officers to have the right to take anybody in their care round a prison. Let some of these youths see the inside of a prison for a couple of hours, for the first time in their lives, and it will have a great effect upon them.

Equally, we have a problem with juveniles on the roads. Many of these young men are earning £10, £12 or £15 a week. Very often some of their money is spent on alcohol.

And more from Crowder:

 But has the hon. Gentleman been to a juvenile court and seen how parents are treated? They are paraded in front of the magistrates with their children standing in front of them. Time and again I have seen magistrates literally tick off the parents in front of the children. Such a practice is rather like ticking off officers in front of men in the Army. It is wholly undesirable. The parents should sit apart from their children, because the inevitable result of the present practice is that the child feels that his parents are standing behind him and backing him up in the crime for which he has been brought before the court. I should like to see a marked change in the present practice.

Interesting, no?

And so to corporal punishment:

    I know that the Government are not so minded, but I cannot see why magistrates could not be empowered to impose corporal punishment in the form of the cane on juvenile delinquents. I say that for the simple reason that it hurts, and they do not like it. It is a deterrent, and it does not do very much harm if it is not applied too forcibly.

    § Mr. W. Griffiths (Manchester, Exchange)

    The hon. Gentleman is a friend of mine. How on earth can he say that? There is no evidence that flogging or hitting people is a deterrent and reduces crime.

    § Mr. Crowder

    I cannot today produce evidence to show that it makes any difference, but I do not think that anybody will disagree with me when I say they do not like it.

    § Mr. A. R. Wise (Rugby)

    There is some evidence. The most expensive system of education in the world is based on it.

    § Mr. Griffiths

    What a lot we have here.

But enough of law and order.


What does one give as a leaving gift to an ex part of the Empire?:

Mr. Gaitskell asked the Prime Minister what proposals will be made to this House for a gift from the House of Commons to the Parliament of Sierra Leone, to commemorate the achievement of that country's independence on 27th April, 1961.

The Prime Minister Her Majesty's Government propose that Mr. Speaker should, on behalf of this House, present a mace to the House of Representatives of Sierra Leone in commemoration of the attainment of independence by Sierra Leone and with our best wishes for the future prosperity of her Legislature and people.

History does not recall whether Milton Margai was offered  a chloice between a big metal stick and cold hard cash. 

More of the same:

    Mr. Skeet asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether it is the intention of the United Kingdom Government to make a gift to the Government of the Republic of Cyprus to commemorate the attainment by that country of her independence on 16th August, 1960.

   Mr. Sandys Yes. We propose making a presentation of a silver table centrepiece which could be used on formal State occasions.

History does not record etc etc.

A 1961 Hansard trawl, featuring tortoises, 123 traffic wardens and the miracle of price fixing.

First up, plus ca change dept - self-interested quangos:

Captain Kerby  asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food (1) whether he is aware that the Tomato and Cucumber Marketing Board is using its journal to influence voting in connection with the forthcoming revocation poll; and whether he will take action to prevent this practice;

    (2) whether he is aware that the Tomato and Cucumber Marketing Board is using moneys compulsorily levied from registered producers to influence voting in favour of the scheme remaining in force; and what action he is taking to stop this practice.

Cries out to heaven for vengeance, or at least legislation, does it not?  But apparently not:

Mr. Soames I am not aware that actions of this kind would be contrary to the Act or the Scheme. Nor is it for me to initiate any action.

That's Arthur 'let's not speak truth unto power, it might upset it' Soames, the chap who decided that he should not make a fuss about Mugabe's thuggery during the 1980 Zim election.  Perhaps a graver crime than the one evidenced above.

And so to an earlier outbreak of doing nothing:

Mr. Longden asked the Lord Privy Seal how the United Kingdom voted on the resolution passed by the United Nations General Assembly in 1953 urging all members to ratify the Convention on Genocide.

Mr. P. Thomas  The United Kingdom delegate to the United Nations General 97W Assembly abstained on the vote on resolution 795 (VIII) which called on States to accelerate their ratifications of, or accessions to, the Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. The resolution was adopted by fifty votes to none with eight abstentions.

There were doubtless good reasons for this,  but it looks awful. We acceded to it in 1970.

Habeas corpus, so to speak:

Captain Kerby asked the Minister of Health what is the cost to the National Health Service of cadavers imported into the United Kingdom for use in teaching hospitals; how many were imported during 1959 and 1960; and what were their countries of origin.

Mr. Powell Cadavers are not used in teaching hospitals. They are not imported for use in medical schools.

The good captain had a lively and enquiring mind, did he not?  Tomatoes one minute and corpses the next. Meanwhile, what were our trainee sawbones practicing on?

The often vexed issue of public sector pensions:

Mr. G. M. Thomson asked the Secretary of State for Scotland what is the average pension at present being received by women and men teachers, respectively, who retired before 1951; and what are the average pensions being received by men and women teachers who retire in 1961.

Mr. Maclay The average pensions at present of women and men teachers who retired before 1951 are £238 and £347 per annum respectively. These include increases under the Pensions (Increase) Acts of 61.3 per cent. and 47.4 per cent. respectively. The figures for teachers who retired in the year ending 31st March, 1961, are £437 per annum and £608 per annum respectively. These include small increases under the Pensions (Increase) Acts.

So that's where it all went wrong.


Not hearing the call to the colours:

Mr. John Hall asked the Secretary of State for War what measures he is taking to encourage recruiting into those corps which are getting too small a share of recruits in proportion to their needs.
 

Mr. Profumo In order to improve recruiting in certain corps which are not getting a sufficiently large share of recruits in proportion to their needs, I propose to allow certain men who enlist on a 22-year engagement the option of leaving after four years instead of six. This will apply to the two main trades in the Royal Army Medical Corps and the Royal Army Dental Corps, and to all men in the Royal Military Police and the Army Catering Corps.

Fancy not wanting to be a Redcap.

Price fixing?  It's a good thing.  Apparently:

Mr. Gresham Cooke  asked the President of the Board of Trade, in view of the fact that after four years of investigation the Monopolies Commission has reported that resale price maintenance does not operate against the public interest so far as the cigarette and tobacco industry is concerned, what steps he proposes to take to ensure that equally comprehensive consideration is given to the merits of resale price maintenance so far as concerns other industries affected by the inquiry which his own Department is making into this subject at the present time.

Mr. Maudling   Resale price maintenance was only one of a large number of matters covered by this investigation. In any case, as my hon. Friend will remember, in the Monopolies Commission's Report an the tobacco industry, as well as the majority view, a minority view was expressed on the effects, as regards public advantage, of resale price maintenance in this industry. When I have before me the results of the Departmental inquiry I shall be able to decide whether any further consideration needs to be given to this problem in respect of other industries.

Maybe further on I'll find a reference to the wonders of beating walnut trees with chains or the  prospect of the use of alchemy to pay off the national debt.

I have warm feelings, generally speaking, towards tortoises, so this is rather sad:

Sir B. Janner (Greville's old man - QG) asked the President of the Board of Trade whether his attention has been called to the circumstances in which a large proportion of a consignment of tortoises imported into this country via Newhaven on 19th June arrived in a dead or dying condition; and, in view of this evidence of continuing cruelty, whether he will now consider taking steps to ban or control the importation of tortoises.  
....
Mr. Maudling   My point is that the powers conferred on me are for use for economic purposes and I do not think that they could be used for other purposes.

Mr. Jeger Is it still intended that these tortoises should be used as the symbol of the Government's economic and financial policy?

The oh so witty Mr Jeger was the Labour MP for Goole and never, it would appear, a regular at the Glasgow Empire. 

Manny Shinwell asks some questions as yet still unsatisfactorily answered:

Mr. Shinwell asked the President of the Board of Trade what assessment he has made of the consequences of British entry into the Common Market, with particular reference to an estimate of those countries, apart from the members of the Commonwealth and the European Free Trade Association, with which the United Kingdom would be precluded from entering into independent trading relations.

Mr. Maudling   It would not be feasible to make an assessment of this kind in advance; the answer would depend upon such factors as changes in our own competitive power, the future level of the common tariff, and the commercial policy followed by the enlarged European Economic Community.

Mr. Shinwell Is that not a completely evasive reply? If the Government decide to accept the provisions of the Rome Treaty, that would preclude—apart from the E.F.T.A. countries and the Commonwealth countries—the United Kingdom engaging in independent trading relations. Why does not the right hon. Gentleman say that is so?

Mr. Maudling Simply because I thought everyone knew that.

Mr. Shinwell Are we to understand that the Government propose to enter into negotiations with the Six without having considered the consequences of their actions?

And something else from another age:

Mr. Snow asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he is taking to intensify Her Majesty's Customs' investigation of the smuggling of watches from Switzerland, in view of the fact that the present ex-works value of watches being smuggled into the United Kingdom amounts to over £5 million with a consequential loss of duty and purchase tax amounting to £3,750,000; and whether he will make a statement.

Mr. Barber I do not accept the figures mentioned in the Question, but I agree that the smuggling of watches presents a serious problem. The Customs are making every effort, with their available staff, both to detect it and to prevent it.

Has there ever been a substantial watch making industry in these parts?


The arts commissariat runs riot:

Mr. Hannan (no relation....)  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he has now received from the Arts Council their proposals for allocating the recently increased resources by way of grants and contributions for renovating existing theatres and building new ones; and, in particular, what proportion it is proposed to allocate to Scotland.
 

Sir E. Boyle I would refer the hon. Member to my right hon. and learned Friend's reply to the hon. Member for Goole (Mr. Jeger) on lath July. As regards the second part of the Question the allocation to Scotland out of resources made available to the Arts Council is a matter for the Council.

But it would breach their yooman rights, wouldn't it:

Mr. H. Hynd asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department whether he will now state whether he will seek powers to deport Commonwealth immigrants who become criminals.
 
Mr. R. A. Butler I have no further statement to make on this subject at present

One for anyone who has ever received a parking ticket:

Mr. Callaghan asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department what is the present establishment and strength of traffic wardens in London; how many have resigned since the inception of the scheme; and what reasons they gave.
 

Mr. R. A. Butler  There is no formal establishment for traffic wardens in the Metropolitan Police District, but the Commissioner of Police would like to recruit substantially more than the 123 who are now in post. Of the 174 wardens who have been appointed since July, 1960, three have had their services terminated and 50 have resigned. Of the 50, two have since rejoined.

Of the wardens who resigned and did not rejoin, 18 left to go to other jobs, 12 gave domestic reasons (inability to find suitable accommodation, moving to another area, travelling difficulties), 10 said that the pay was inadequate, three left for health reasons, and three because of abuse from motorists. Two did not finish their training.

I do not doubt that traffic wardens are thicker skinned these days.

The 1961 Hansard trawl, featuring junkets, aviation, car parks and Edward Heath

This might prompt a wry smile or two:

Mr. Rankin asked the Minister of Aviation if he has yet received from the French Government a reply on the possibilities of their collaborating with this country in the production of a supersonic airliner.

Mr. Rippon Within the last few days my right hon. Friend has received a reply from the French Minister of Transport suggesting a discussion between them on this subject, as soon as it can conveniently be arranged.

Mr. Rankin Can the hon. Gentleman say whether or not any sort of study is going on with the French Government on how we are to achieve supersonic speed without the power which, according to Lord Brabazon, at a height of 20,000 feet may shatter the windows of houses below the machine?

Mr. Rippon French firms as well as British firms have been engaged on these studies, which include the sort of matter to which Lord Brabazon referred.

I've heard some rather lurid tales about the former member for Hexham, but on the off chance he has not gone to meet his maker I'm keeping schtum.


A less than thrilling junket for the Czechoslovaks:

 Mr. Houghton asked the Minister of Pensions and National Insurance whether he has invited a delegation from the National Social Security Office in Prague to visit this country; when he expects the delegation to arrive; for what period they will stay; and what arrangements will be made for them to see the working of his Department.

Mr. Boyd-Carpenter The Czechoslovak National Social Security Office has accepted an invitation to send a small party of officials to this country to study the work of my Department. I expect them to come in September for 866 about 10 to 14 days. Arrangements will be made for them to visit my Central Office at Newcastle-upon-Tyne and to study other aspects of my Department's work.

I would have thought that B-C was setting us up for a fall here, given the nature of Socialist planned economies.

Speaking of planned economies, here's one from 'the past is a foreign country' file:

Mr. V. Yates asked the Minister of Aviation why he has increased the car-parking charges at London Airport;

...(much blah)...

Mr Rippon....As regards the future, I think that the multi-storey garage which is being built will go far to ease the position.

And aviation again:

Mr. Stratton Mills  asked the Minister of Aviation what regulations he makes regarding the tipping of porters at airports and air terminals under the control of this Department.

The Parliamentary Secretary to the Ministry of Aviation (Mr. Geoffrey Rippon) Ministry of Aviation porters at airports and aerodromes are forbidden to solicit tips from passengers or visitors or to behave in such a manner as to suggest tips are expected, but they are not debarred from accepting tips which are freely and spontaneously offered. Ministry porters are not employed at the air terminals.

Mr. Stratton Mills

While thanking my hon. Friend for that reply, may I ask him if he does not feel that as B.E.A., particularly, and other airlines have a strictly enforced "no-tipping at all" 876 policy, there is considerable confusion in the minds of people using our airports? Will he also bear in mind that, as I once had a tip returned to me by a French porter at a French airport—[HON. MEMBERS: "Was it too small?"] —I admit that this should be considered somewhat unusual—it would be more desirable to have a definite policy of no tipping at British airports and air terminals? 

....
Dame Irene Ward Is my hon. Friend aware that I think our men at our airports are jolly good? Is he aware that they do not let it be known that they would like tips, whereas when one arrives at foreign airports a standard rate is generally demanded? Will he see that our men are put on the same favourable terms, if this decision is an international one, at our airports? Our men have done jolly well.

Mr. Rippon My hon. Friend does not bestow tributes lightly, and I know that the porters will be grateful for her observations.

Doubtless the conversation in the Heathrow breakroom was of little else.  Meanwhile, the Dame is worth reading about.  She was once the Conservative member for Wallsend.  We got 18% in the successor seat in 2010.

Pity the poor Greeks:

Mr. F. Noel-Baker asked the Lord Privy Seal what was the purpose of his recent official visit to Greece; for how long he stayed; which Greek Ministers he saw; and what decisions were taken.

Mr. Heath I visited Athens from 11th to 13th July for discussions with the Greek Foreign Minister. I also met the Greek Prime Minister and the Minister for Co-ordination of Economic Affairs. This provided a most useful opportunity for a frank and friendly exchange of views on matters of mutual interest.

It probably involved Edward the Worst telling Karamanlis what a marvelous Lord Privy Seal he was.

What the...

Captain Kerby asked the Minister of Transport, in view of the financial losses incurred by the British Railways, if he will give a general direction to The Britisth Transport Commission not to undertake prestige advertising.

Mr. Marples No. This is a matter for the Commission's commercial judgment.

Erm?

A brief 1961 Hansard trawl, featuring racial minefields, loveydom, exchange controls and rabbit clearance societies.

Some tiptoeing / stomping around in racial minefields:

Mr. N. Pannell asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department if he will now state what steps are contemplated to control immigration from Commonwealth countries in view of the fact that the estimated net inward movement for the first two months of this year is over five times the figure for the corresponding period last year.
....
Mr. Wingfield Digby Is not there enough evidence in the world today of the difficulty of multi-racial societies to give us cause to pause before we go any further in creating a multi-racial society here?

Mr. Awbery (Bristol Central, Lab) Can the Minister give the figures of emigration and immigration? Regarding the point raised by the hon. Member for Dorset, West (Mr. Wingfield Digby), is he aware that when we send English people abroad we help to create a multi-racial state in the places to which they go, and so a difficulty arises there as well?

I make that game, set and match to Awbery.


And there's more:

Mr. Hughes Is the right hon. Gentleman aware that, of course, I follow the Prime Minister's speeches? It is our duty to do so. I do not want to embarrass either the Home Secretary or the Prime Minister by saying that this was a very good speech in which he said that a policy of apartheid was anti-Christian, but could the right hon. Gentleman assure us that his right hon. Friend who disseminates information throughout the world will see that this speech is widely distributed throughout Africa?

Mr. Butler It was not a speech. It was in answer to a question at a Press conference. The Prime Minister used the words which have been attributed to him and I have checked with him that that is so. I do not think that the honour of circulating them in the OFFICIAL REPORT or making them into a White Paper is necessarily desirable, as they were answers at a Press conference.

I suppose Butler could not say the comments were only for the benefit of Mac's audience in T & T, could he?

A curious Hansard heading for this, but tis a curious tale:

Universities (World Disarmament)

 Mr. G. M. Thomson (Lab) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will consider the endowment by Her Majesty's Government at one of the universities of the United Kingdom of a research unit to study the military, economic and other problems of world disarmament.

Sir E. Boyle No, Sir.

Strange thing to fall within the Exchequer's purview, frankly. 

But there's more:

Mr. E. L. Mallalieu (Lab, and father of that hunt-loving class traitor in the Lords)  Cannot the Government take the initiative in this matter? Surely they are not going to sit back and allow not only the Russians to lead us in propaganda peace appeals but also now the Americans?

Sir E. Boyle  This goes to the heart of our whole system of dealing with the universities in this country. Where it is a matter of a research unit, we would always wait for a university to make a request. That is the whole basis of our system of dealing with the universities through the University Grants Committee. It would be quite a new departure in policy if the Government were to take the initiative in encouraging a research unit of this kind.

Mr. Thomson Is the Minister saying that if we can persuade a university to take an interest in this matter, the Government will sympathetically consider such a request?
 

Sir E. Boyle I am sure that both the universities themselves and the University Grants Committee will take note of the views expressed by hon. Members opposite.

Oh doubtless, Sir Edward, doubtless .

And the return of the London stage's greatest fan, the MP for Goole (Lab):

Mr. Jeger asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he discussed with the London County Council the future of the South Bank site before making his decision not to proceed with the building of a National Theatre.

Sir E. Boyle   No, Sir. But my right hon. and learned Friend discussed this matter with the Chairman of the L.C.C. on March 13th and further discussions between the Government and the L.C.C. will take place as occasion requires.

Mr. Jeger Is not this a terrible example of the shabby way in which the Government have treated the London County Council? Is not the Minister aware that the L.C.C. has held this site for over ten years and, owing to the deplorable manner in which the Government have handled the question of a National Theatre, there is considerable doubt whether we shall ever see one, and that we shall have to rely on the forward-looking and imaginative boldness of the L.C.C. to provide it?

And so from East Riding theatrical types to civil servant loving Tories:

Mr. Wingfield Digby  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer what steps he proposes to take to reduce the disparity between financial rewards in the higher ranks of the public service and outside industry, particularly among technical civil servants and especially with regard to the benefits in kind which are available in outside industry but not in the public service.

Sir E. Boyle  None, Sir. The Standing Advisory Committee on the Pay of the Higher Civil Service reviewed the situation early in 1959 in the light of the principles recommended by the Royal Commission on the Civil Service. The Government accepted their recommendations and there is no reason to think that another review is called for now.

Mr. Wingfield Digby If the present trend continues, is it not the case that we shall be in danger of losing from the public service the very best people, even taking into account their desire to serve the public and also such questions as honours?

This is rather entertaining:

Mr. Lipton asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how much it costs to mint a penny and halfpenny coin, respectively.

Mr. Barber It would not be in the public interest to disclose these figures.

Mr. Lipton Is it correct to assume that it costs more than a halfpenny to manufacture a halfpenny and probably about a penny to make a penny? Is it not very strange and most suspicious that the Treasury is not willing to disclose how much it costs to make these coins?

Mr. Barber No. The answer is a very simple one, namely, that the Mint's foreign competitors do not reveal their production costs, and I therefore do not think that it would be right to expect the Mint to reveal its production costs.

Wasn't some more recent low denom coin reckoned to cost more to mint than it was worth?  I still miss ha'pennies - they made great impromptu screwdrivers.

Sticking with money, one to astonish the children, grandchildren etc:

Mr. J. Howard asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer how many letters were opened within the last convenient twelve months under the authority of Section 22 of the Exchange Control Act, 1947; and what was the total amount of illegally remitted currency discovered by this examination.
 

Mr. Barber In 1960 approximately 300,000 letters were opened and £50,000 of illegally remitted currency discovered.

Repeal of this odious and mercantilist law came under Thatcher, and it is to their lasting disgrace that Macmilllan, Douglas-Home and Heath did nothing about it.


Anyone fancy joining a rabbit clearance society?

Mr. de Freitas asked the Minister of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food what proportion of the rabbit clearance societies is organised as co-operatives.

Mr. Vane  All but one of the societies are registered under the Industrial and Provident Societies' Acts. The arrangements for registration are co-ordinated in England by the Agricultural Central Co-operative Association and in Wales by the Welsh Agricultural Organisation Society.

.....

Mr. Gaitskell In order to assist those who are not so expert, could the hon. Gentleman say what a rabbit clearance society is?

Mr. Vane It is an organisation of interested parties, sponsored by my right hon. Friend, to ensure that the small population of rabbits in this country does not increase again so as to become a serious menace to agriculture.

I, for one, am grateful for Gaitskell's intervention.


And at last we discover why we loom so large in the hearts of the good people of Sierra Leone:

Mr. Pannell asked the Secretary of State for Commonwealth Relations whether it is the intention of the United Kingdom Government to mark the occasion of Sierra Leone's independence by a gift.

 Mr. Sandys Yes. We are making a presentation of table silver bearing the Sierra Leone coat of arms, which could be used on formal State occasions.

However, Pannell is an unspeakable cad for spoiling the surprise.

The 50 year old Hansard Trawl, featuring Edward Heath being right. For once.

Yes, I was shocked too, but here's the evidence:

Mr. Longbottom asked the Lord Privy Seal what advice he is offering to British organisations and individuals invited to the 8th World Youth Festival due to be held in Helsinki in 1962.
   
Mr. Heath After studying the activities of the organising bodies, the World Federation of Democratic Youth and the International Union of Students, I have concluded that there has been no change in the Communist policy of promoting these Festivals in order to exploit young people for the purposes of Communist propaganda. They are stage-managed by Communist-controlled organisations solely concerned to advance the aims of the Soviet Government. The proceedings at the last such Festival, held in Vienna in 1959, only served to confirm this once again. I understand that Finnish student and youth organisations have themselves declared their opposition to the holding of the 8th Festival in Finland on these grounds.            

I can just hear him saying it too.

Here's one to shock younger readers, or for older readers to regale their progeny with:

Mr. Biggs-Davison asked the Postmaster-General why lawyers are not given priority in the supply of home telephones, whereas such priority is given to Members of Parliament, doctors and others.

Mr. BevinsMy reply of 22nd February to my hon. Friend referred to the principles governing priority in the supply of home telephones.

    It is obviously necessary to limit the number of priority cases; broadly speaking, we give priority to those who may be concerned with matters of "life and death", e.g. doctors, nurses and ministers of religion. In addition, some telephones are needed in the national interest, for example for Members of Parliament, and to meet the special needs of the sick or disabled and for those dependent on a home telephone for their livelihood. It is not practicable to cover all cases of special need by rules, and discretion is, therefore, given to telephone managers. I am sure that the position of lawyers is given due weight. If my hon. Friend has a case of particular hardship in mind I shall be very happy to look into it.

J B-D was not a lawyer, by the way.  He represented the Epping Forest constituency into the 80s, and thus represented my secondary school.  Friends always looked forward to their 18th birthday cards from him.  While we are on this ramble down memory lane, I remember party lines and sometimes think how much amusement could be derived from mobile lines being shared now.  It would certainly make public transport and coffee shops quieter.....

This is a little gem:

Mr. Emrys Hughes asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty what are the precise functions of the Liaison Committee 444 that he has set up to assist him in connection with the United States Polaris submarine base at Holy Loch.

Mr. C. Ian Orr-Ewing The functions of the Liaison Committee are to create administrative machinery for the protection of the population, to convey to the public the significance of any incident and to re-assure local opinion on the hazards involved in the unlikely event of a serious accident.

Mr. Hughes Is the Minister aware that he also has liaison officers? Is he aware that they have been inquiring on behalf of the American sailors about the increased price of Coco Cola (sic), whisky, cinema seats and other things in Dunoon? Does he not think that he should make some attempt to get in touch with the local inhabitants in order to prevent the Americans being exploited in case it will make them go Communist? 

Mr. Orr-Ewing I am very surprised that the hon. Gentleman should suggest that constituents near his own constituency are exploiting the Americans. If prices have in fact risen, perhaps this is one of the benefits arising from the deployment of these craft. 

Another one to make one's eyes widen:

Mr. Deedes (yes, that Mr Deedes) asked the Minister of Transport whether his Department has approved the list of shipyards to which the Cunard Steamship Company are about to send invitations to tender for the new Cunarder.
 
Mr. Marples Yes, Sir.

In our time, the QM2 was built in France, and the Queens Victoria and Elizabeth in Italy .       

A 1961 Hansard trawl

It looks as though there's nothing new in over-manning at government departments, as this shows:

Mr Paget asked the Civil Lord of the Admiralty if he will state the number of persons employed in his Department, the number of Her Majesty's ships in commission, and the number of men serving in the fleets in 1939, 1945, 1950. 1960, or convenient proximate dates.

Mr Ian Orr-Ewing - The numbers of civilians and naval officers together employed at Admiralty Headquarters in the years 1938, 1946, 1950 and 1960, respectively, were: 4,407, 18,445, 10,855 and 9,953. The number of Her Majesty's ships in commission at approximately the same respective dates were: 434, 1,176, 268, 211. The number of men serving afloat on approximately similar dates were: 68,300, 159,900, 65,900 and 43,000. These figures exclude Fleet Air Arm and Royal Marine Commando personnel serving ashore.

So, twice as many folk at the Admiralty in 1960 than in 1938 with only half as many ships.  Graph forthcoming if time and technology permits.

The National Theatre -

 

Dr. Stross (Lab, Stoke on Trent)  asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer whether he is aware of the mounting public interest in the possibility that, after long delay, the National Theatre will be built on the site allocated on the South Bank; and when he will make an announcement about this. 

 

Doubtless the talk in Stoke was of little else.  Stross is rumoured to have been a Czech spook.  The MPs for Goole and Cambridge were also interested.

And then this:

Mr. Jeger  Is the Financial Secretary aware that this long continued and unnecessary delay in making up the mind of the Government on this question is building up their reputation for meanness and mediocrity? Are not the Government being put to shame in this matter by the imaginative and progressive policy of the L.C.C. in developing the South Bank?

Sir E. Boyle I do not consider that the Government's record of support for the arts generally, in comparison with that of any previous Government, can be considered all that mean. In other respects, I do not think I can add to what I have said.

Meanwhile, a doff of the opera hat to Sir Peter Garnett Agnew Bt, the thespians' friend:

When the time comes when the Government feel able to give more money to art, will they consider, not putting it into bricks and mortar, but making it available to our provincial repertory companies, from whom and among whom so many of our leading dramatists have made their successful beginnings in their profession?

And now the smoker's friend,or perhaps the tobacco barons' friend:

Mr. Woodnutt  (Con, IoW) asked the Chancellor of the Exchequer if he will authorise the Customs and Excise to refund duty in respect of stocks of tobacco and cigarettes damaged by flooding.

Mr. Barber No, Sir.

(Adopts Taggart voice) - There's been a muhrderrr:

Brigadier Clarke asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department how many murders, known to the police, took place in January, 1960; and how this figure compares with that for January, 1961.

Mr. R. A. Butler: The number of murders recorded as known to the police in January, 1960, was 18. The corresponding figure for January, 1961, is not yet available, but it seems probable that it will be about 21. These figures include some cases that have been or will be found not to be murder.

And so to the demon drink:

Mr. F. Noel-Baker asked the Secretary of State for the Home Department when he will publish the results of the investigations of the Social Survey Division of the Central Office of Information into offences of drunkenness among all age groups which he received almost six months ago.

Mr. R. A. Butler:The inquiry was limited to police records and the views of the police; and the report was not designed for publication. The report shows that the general view of the police is that public drunkenness is not a serious or increasing problem. It affords some ground for believing that the increased number of convictions for drunkenness is in part attributable to changes in police practice rather than to an increase in drunkenness itself. These conclusions, however, are tentative and must be treated with some reserve.

Oh well....